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China and Russia agreed to sell weapons to Iran
#1
IMF 03 April 2019 - Iran
It is confirmed yesterday that China and Russia agreed to help Iran to modernize it's armed forces, acording to high ranking sources in Russia,China and Iran armed forces Iran will buy not only aircrafts but wide range of weapons and defense systems.It is still unclear what exactlly types of weapons Iran will buy,Russian sources reveal that weapons deal include aircrafts,helicopters,missile defense systems and other equipment for ground force and navy and said that deal is worth more than 10.8$ billion. Source from China told that IR Iran and China will sign deal worth 3.8$ billion of weapons sales.
news is confirmed from multiple sources on all 3 sides but still, as explained negotiations are still underway and we will know more in comming days.
Potential weapons sale from Russia could be Su 30/34/35 ,mig-35,mil mi-28,T-90MBT..this is what was discussed earlier,while from China J-10 and JF17 could be option even one source confuse us with claim that JH-7 is also discussed...There are other reports of this event but also comming from unnamed sources from Russia or/and China...our source from Iran armed force could only confirm that last few months Iran is intensively negotiate with Russia,China but also with N.korea(whose delegation was in iran recently). He couldn't say anything about deal...
Now feel free to add your opinion to this,I will try to get confirmation of this from source I can quote but for now no one wants to be quoted,I succeed to get only few unofficial confirmations.
#2
[Image: 4344095-0.jpg]

Ruhani is losing patient I don't think he can continue the deal till 2020 .
#3
What is the point of buying Russian and Chinese jets? This will make maintenance and training much more complicated.

Also which AD systems is Iran interested in? Iran has Tor, s300pmu2, building domestic pantsir, has domestic BUK - what would Iran want? Buk M3? S300V?
#4
better questions would be :

whats the point of buying weapons if your country don't have enough money to survive ?

can Iran with these Russian and Chinese weapons generate wealth ?

I know there is a gap between us and the region in terms of advanced arms but at the same time I really don't like the circumstances that are forcing us to chose our next move in regards to other countries actions .

meanwhile today Trump shown his carrot to Russia and his stick to us

US is going to ‘trade a lot’ with Russia, Trump says, after ‘long & very good’ phone call with Putin

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#5
(05-04-2019, 11:40 AM)pin gu Wrote: better questions would be :

whats the point of buying weapons if your country don't have enough money to survive ?

can Iran with these Russian and Chinese weapons generate wealth ?

I know there is a gap between us and the region in terms of advanced arms but at the same time I really don't like the circumstances that are forcing us to chose our next move in regards to other countries actions .

meanwhile  today Trump shown his carrot to Russia and his stick to us

US is going to ‘trade a lot’ with Russia, Trump says, after ‘long & very good’ phone call with Putin

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Iran survived worst times than this. These weapons generate security, wealth without security means nothing. 

It is not like that Iran spends this money on people instead of upgrading its military that suddenly the sanctions will end and the economy will rise! But these are necessary to prevent an invasion by the arrogant powers. This also will give a big boost for domestic industries related to these weapons so yes there can be wealth generated from this as well!
#6
after fall of USSR and before 9-11 ( invasion of Iraq) there was a balance in our region . but after that Invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan this balance changed rapidly . Iran found an ally in Baghdad while Saudis lost their position there but instead they got oil market . Turkey was a member of NATO so they had a little security concern about the region till late 2010 . in 2010 Obama changed the balance of region by putting heavy sanctions on our National Bank and oil sector . as you can see until late 2014 Saudis and co enjoyed selling more than 15 million barrel of 90-100 USD oil while Iran was selling 1-2 mbpd .these oil dollars helped them creating all kinds of proxies and wars in the region ( Syria 2011 - Iraq couple of years later ) . now with Trump we are backed to 2011 point when he is committed to give them all oil dollars they want and they are happily buy large portion of their needs from U.S and giving a little bit of hush money to China and Russia and EU ( read their arms deals with them )

let me summarize it this way as long as they earn money and we don't, war is inevitable .
#7
Iran needs to import about a 50 Su-30SM's and probably another 50 or so Mig-29SMT's to upgrade its AF. This is an immediate requirement. Anything else is not required at this moment.
#8
Where did you get wind of this news anyway? I knew that there were lots of deals being formulated and inked with Russia (I seem to recall one in particular around 2016-2017 about Russia and Iran jointly manufacturing helicopters for military purposes within Iran) but this unsourced news all of a sudden? I'd be much obliged if you could at least clarify where you came across this information, if you so please.

I'm torn on Russia; they had one very big chance to make killer deals with Iran when the West began sanctioning them over Ukraine but they instead chose to go the long road by compromising Iran on the Syrian battleground (leaving it open to Israeli aerial bombardment) just so that they could open negotiations with the West on favourable ground. It's China who's far more valuable as a business partner at the moment, unfortunately (yes, I don't trust China one bit because they have the potential to be worse than the US and USSR combined, let alone just Russia), but given the recent trade war Trump has threatened to launch against them, coupled with the fact that the US is in monetary debt to them makes them more reliable because Iran would be a huge new market. Besides, China is it's own independent block as opposed to EU or even Russia, which on a deep state level is run by the same elements that control the Western world.

Chinese military hardware is a far cry nowadays from what it used to be in the 90s or early 2000s, in particular their air force, which is fielding fighter aircraft capable of going toe-to-toe with comparable Western aircraft, both in 4+ and 5th generation. As such, an investment in Chinese military hardware for the time being is more sensible.

Just my two cents.
Mirror Flower, Water Moon
Bite and bite again until snakes become dragons
#9
(05-21-2019, 12:13 PM)Sōsuke Aizen Wrote: Where did you get wind of this news anyway? I knew that there were lots of deals being formulated and inked with Russia (I seem to recall one in particular around 2016-2017 about Russia and Iran jointly manufacturing helicopters for military purposes within Iran) but this unsourced news all of a sudden? I'd be much obliged if you could at least clarify where you came across this information, if you so please.

I'm torn on Russia; they had one very big chance to make killer deals with Iran when the West began sanctioning them over Ukraine but they instead chose to go the long road by compromising Iran on the Syrian battleground (leaving it open to Israeli aerial bombardment) just so that they could open negotiations with the West on favourable ground. It's China who's far more valuable as a business partner at the moment, unfortunately (yes, I don't trust China one bit because they have the potential to be worse than the US and USSR combined, let alone just Russia), but given the recent trade war Trump has threatened to launch against them, coupled with the fact that the US is in monetary debt to them makes them more reliable because Iran would be a huge new market. Besides, China is it's own independent block as opposed to EU or even Russia, which on a deep state level is run by the same elements that control the Western world.

Chinese military hardware is a far cry nowadays from what it used to be in the 90s or early 2000s, in particular their air force, which is fielding fighter aircraft capable of going toe-to-toe with comparable Western aircraft, both in 4+ and 5th generation. As such, an investment in Chinese military hardware for the time being is more sensible.

Just my two cents.

welcome to forum Aizen 

on issue of mistrust and/or backstabbing :

The first priority of Iran is to do something until Russia or China treat Iran as equal .the best thing to do in this regard is growing up in all fields they have achieved so far .

With that point of view in mind lets see what we can do , and lets take a look at some important factors :

Population : It's almost impossible to reach population of china for a country like Iran but Russia's population is easier target .Khamenei once said :"don't bring population limiting plans for me until our population reached to 120 million" . so the ideal number for us according to our elites is 120 million and it's doable in next 2 or 3 decades .

Industry requirements: right now China is a leading country in world in many fields like stainless steel and aluminium and ... . thanks to their huge population they can keep their position as a number 1 . I think in this one Russia is little bit ahead of Iran . Iran is rank 14 and Russia rank 5 . maybe with current speed of grows in these fields we can reach to Russia in next 2 or 3 decades . without "big population" or "big markets" some of our goals are not achievable so huge investments on industry for fast growth connected to population problem .

Point of view towards current world order : All of us share somehow the similar point of view towards the West in general but thanks to economy of China and their potentials they are immune to a lot of pressures from outside and they have easier access to the West and their tech ,market and financial systems . so they don't feel what is like to be Iran which is under heavier pressure of the West or Russia which is under softer pressure of the West .
but more or less Iran and Russia in this one are in a same boat .

Scientific outputs : Again China is way ahead of both Iran and Russia in this one too . Russia is still ahead of Iran but we can reach in this field to Russia in next 10-15 years .

Location on map : To reach China through land we need to face the Western bases between us or change our old natural position towards India then we can connect through land with China . there is a similar pattern through sea connection . but in case of Russia it's much easier both through land and sea . keep that in mind China's economic zones are located in east of China that means we need longer time to access to them .

Military power and equipment : In this one I think both China and Russia equal and in some fields Russia is ahead of China but maybe in next decade China will surpass Russia .One of the main problems I see between Iran-Russia relations is this one since the gap between us is huge so we need to work on this one to close this gap but at the same time like any other country we have limited resources and a lot of none-military issues so huge investments on defensive equipments are not justifiable . so the gap will remain there and I have no idea how we can solve it .

There are many other factors and some of them are important but these are a few examples I can point out to them for now .

After all if Iran wants to be seen as equal she must show herself as an equal there is no easy way there .
  


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