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Saeghe I/II. Azaraksh. Kowsar. Domestic F-5 E/F upgrades
#11
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#12
I am trying to know more about the radar. Seems to me that capability wise, it would be something between 80s stuff like Elta EL/M-2021B, KLJ-6F and 90s stuff EL/M-2032/KLJ-7(Look down shoot down). Somewhere around 85-90 km Detection range for RCS of 5m^2 with upto 6-10 targets detected in track-Scan mode. It will enable BVR combat along with look down shoot down capability.

If this synopsis is correct that domestic F-5F was actually avionics and combat suite test bed for future advanced trainer Kowsar, then Kowsar will be a true advanced jet trainer and a light combat platform.

Iran has potential as a nation to build a 4.0 generation aircraft but not without foreign help. If today Iran can get a smooth supply of Turbofans and Radar from Russia or Europe then we will see a Iranian equivalent of F-20/FC-1/F-16 Blk 15.
#13
You guys do realise that Iran actually has 2 Kowsar and no this aircraft actually not that Kowsar training jet it is actually development from Saeqeh and Azarakhskh and can be called Saeqeh 3
(08-21-2018, 05:16 PM)Emirzaad Wrote: I suppose the avionics package on this aircraft will be used on Kowsar-88. They called it a new fighter for propaganda.

I am still considering it an extensive avionics package if radar is new.
You sure the say as new fighter for propaganda?
#14
(08-23-2018, 01:18 PM)07_SeppDietrich Wrote: You guys do realise that Iran actually has 2 Kowsar and no this aircraft actually not that Kowsar training jet it is actually development from Saeqeh and Azarakhskh and can be called Saeqeh 3
You sure the say as new fighter for propaganda?

I would call it propaganda by sycophants mouthpieces who called this a new fighter. Before, same gang was calling Blue Saeghe equivalent to FA/-18. They have a history of saying stupid most stuff to malign real Iranian accomplishments. Had they called this new jet "88% domestically produced version of F-5F with 4th generation avionics" then it would have been better. Whole world would have praised Iranian domestic effort. Kowsar-88 is a jet trainer project. W

BT called it a test bed for Azarakhsh/Saeghe III/IV (real fourth generation) and Kowsar advanced training jet. I do not like his political rants but I believe his IRIAF inside stories, he is reliable. If that was the case, they could have called it what it was and it would still be commendable that this plane is 88 % domestic, local turbojet and Pulse Doppler radar is on it. I mean I am quite happy with the effort. The airframe is new, avionics are upgraded in these tough times. With sanctions gone and foreign procurement becoming more easier, this can evolve into FC-1/F-20/F-16 A like fighter.
#15
If any aircraft in Iran's inventory was to receive this upgrade, it should have been the F-14.

It's positive that the "Kowsar-1" has a ballistic computer for dropping dumb bombs, but it should be able to use guided weapons too. But Iran should realise that the most important aircraft is not a light CAS aircraft, it's a capable fighter. I also don't understand what Iran wants wrt training aircraft... "Kowsar-1"? "Kowsar-88"? What's it going to be?
نه شرقی، نه غربی، جمهوری اسلامی
#16
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Test of ejection seat at 21,000 ft and 790 km/h (Mach ~0.7).

Video of said test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjd578DOl...be&t=9m59s
نه شرقی، نه غربی، جمهوری اسلامی
#17
(08-25-2018, 04:09 PM)AmirPatriot Wrote: If any aircraft in Iran's inventory was to receive this upgrade, it should have been the F-14.

It's positive that the "Kowsar-1" has a ballistic computer for dropping dumb bombs, but it should be able to use guided weapons too. But Iran should realise that the most important aircraft is not a light CAS aircraft, it's a capable fighter. I also don't understand what Iran wants wrt training aircraft... "Kowsar-1"? "Kowsar-88"? What's it going to be?


I was looking for them to fit in a IRST system in this upgrade. A small RCS fighter that can detect others in a passive way would have given this jet advantage in combat. Long range IRST is a must for any IRIAF future jet.

Offcourse IRIAF needs long range MRCA's not CAS aircrafts. Which is exactly why I think next generation Saeghe/Azarakhsh will be a larger airframe with more space for avionics, fuel. They need TOT for turbofans, J-85 cant power larger jet. 

F-14AM is already is miles ahead of this upgrade program (F-14A itself is miles ahead) . I am waiting for BT article on F-14AM so that we get to know in details what has been done to tomcat. I do think with help from Chinese electronics companies, F-14 can be brought to F-14D like standard inside Iran.
#18
(08-25-2018, 06:33 PM)Emirzaad Wrote: I was looking for them to fit in a IRST system in this upgrade. A small RCS fighter that can detect others in a passive way would have given this jet advantage in combat. Long range IRST is a must for any IRIAF future jet.

Offcourse IRIAF needs long range MRCA's not CAS aircrafts. Which is exactly why I think next generation Saeghe/Azarakhsh will be a larger airframe with more space for avionics, fuel. They need TOT for turbofans, J-85 cant power larger jet. 

F-14AM is already is miles ahead of this upgrade program (F-14A itself is miles ahead) . I am waiting for BT article on F-14AM so that we get to know in details what has been done to tomcat. I do think with help from Chinese electronics companies, F-14 can be brought to F-14D like standard inside Iran.

I don't think the F-5 needs an IRST partially because it is a dead end as an actual fighter, but also because Iran's actual IR missiles are very poor for the role... R-27T/ET has the range but not the precision, R-73 has the precision but not the range, AIM-9P has neither.

I personally want them to stop messing around with the F-5 (unless as a training aircraft). For God's sake, they've made 5 re-hashes of this jet... Simorgh, Azarakhsh, Saeqeh, Saeqeh 2, Kowsar-1.

Yes F-14AM is ahead, but it is a 4.0 gen aircraft while the F-5 is 3rd gen. That means that the F-14 still has to actually be useful against AESA-equipped 4.5th gen fighters like the F-15SA and EF Typhoon etc. What it needs is a fully digitalised radar w/ resistance to jamming, advanced data-linked avionics, as well as very modern A2A missiles so it can be an effective interceptor. Sure, Fakour is a start but they are huge and heavy and will already reduce the speed of those F-14s. Remember, they're running on the underpowered TF-30. A slimline medium range missile like the AMRAAM or R-77 would have been better. Integrating the R-73 into the F-14AM would have given it a chance at self defence in WVR. And I refuse to believe that Iran cannot improve on the Pheonix. The problem is that every branch of the military has its own little design company... While the IRIADF gets Sayyad-3 with over triple the range of the original SM-1, IRIAF SSJ can't even copy the Pheonix, let alone improve on it. It's so stupid that Iran isn't utilising it's resources and talent even within the armed forces. It's not like there are private civilian companies and separate, state companies in completely separate industries... each service of the SAME MILITARY is working on its own and don't cooperate to improve each other's capabilities!
نه شرقی، نه غربی، جمهوری اسلامی
#19
(08-26-2018, 12:11 AM)AmirPatriot Wrote: I don't think the F-5 needs an IRST partially because it is a dead end as an actual fighter, but also because Iran's actual IR missiles are very poor for the role... R-27T/ET has the range but not the precision, R-73 has the precision but not the range, AIM-9P has neither.

I personally want them to stop messing around with the F-5 (unless as a training aircraft). For God's sake, they've made 5 re-hashes of this jet... Simorgh, Azarakhsh, Saeqeh, Saeqeh 2, Kowsar-1.

I would not be against the F-5 family domestic production. Keep the bigger picture in mind, If Iran maintains its grip over the region with allies in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon ,Yemen, future Afghanistan theatres, It will require to provide its allies with weapons to save themselves. Who literally feels happier when jew jets enter Syrian skies toburn our and syrian soldiers in bases. Our weakness in conventional military arm has let us down in Syria. For 4 billion dollars Iran can produce 400+ such jets and place them inside Iraq, Syria to safe guard its militias from Israeli fighters and provide much more needed CAS. Money can come from whoever gets them as well.  

I am not talking about the Kowsar-1 as the final product. I am talking about the end product of this R&D program with slightly modified air frame, use of composites, larger nose cone etc. Something similar to FCK-1, F-20, FC-1, F-16 Block 15/30 ... If the radar they showed truly was a domestically modified KLJ-6F then in future they can also manage to get KLJ-7A (AESA) from same company in China which can be fitted in an enlarged Saeghe Nose that they have experimented before with (Prototype 3-7366). IRST is must for IRIAF because region is getting filled with low RCS long range radar carrying 4+ fighter jets. IRIAF just cant rely upon airborne radars to detect enemy fighters. Such a fighter can fire a combination of two BVR missiles like PL-12 and then switch to HOBS weapon like R-74. If paired with HMS, that  becomes a deadly combination. IRST, KLJ-7A, PL-12, HMS+HOBS R-74 will make domestically built F-5 a formidable fighter for localized defense. I obviously do not think they would ever produce more than 70 of these fighters even if production becomes completely localized. But its better than having nothing to defend the troops. What becomes of IRIAF if sanctions continue and no one supplied IRIAF with anything like before ? Imagine a 2022 IRIAF with no foreign procurement. I would rather have 250 future generation Saeghe/Kowsar armed IRIAF then having nothing.   

(08-26-2018, 12:11 AM)AmirPatriot Wrote: Yes F-14AM is ahead, but it is a 4.0 gen aircraft while the F-5 is 3rd gen. That means that the F-14 still has to actually be useful against AESA-equipped 4.5th gen fighters like the F-15SA and EF Typhoon etc. What it needs is a fully digitalised radar w/ resistance to jamming, advanced data-linked avionics, as well as very modern A2A missiles so it can be an effective interceptor. Sure, Fakour is a start but they are huge and heavy and will already reduce the speed of those F-14s. Remember, they're running on the underpowered TF-30. A slimline medium range missile like the AMRAAM or R-77 would have been better. Integrating the R-73 into the F-14AM would have given it a chance at self defence in WVR. And I refuse to believe that Iran cannot improve on the Pheonix. The problem is that every branch of the military has its own little design company... While the IRIADF gets Sayyad-3 with over triple the range of the original SM-1, IRIAF SSJ can't even copy the Pheonix, let alone improve on it. It's so stupid that Iran isn't utilising it's resources and talent even within the armed forces. It's not like there are private civilian companies and separate, state companies in completely separate industries... each service of the SAME MILITARY is working on its own and don't cooperate to improve each other's capabilities!

F-14AM serves another purpose in IRIAF without AEW in air to cover such large area. They can cover a this large area with their powerful but old AWG-9 and provide information to other smaller radar range fighters like Mig-29s. But AWG-9 can be jammed by 4+ enemies in sky. If Iran gets its hands on IRBIS-E then this problem is solved. This is the main reason IRIAF wants Su-35S because with its IRBIS-E it fits into the IRIAF doctrine of using F-14AM as a mini AWACS. 

In future IRIAF needs to procure newer A2A armaments from Russia or China or whoever offers. R-77 will come with Mig-29 SMT upgrades if that actually happens. They must also request R-77T from Russia. PL-12 is another choice. These procurement will be fruitful for local fighter program. 

As for the last part of your post, I do not want to get into Mullah Politics but that is the major problem with Iranian defence production or procurement. Mullahs have failed at this front miserably.
#20
On the one side i seems to be logical to build advanced F5 trainer jets in Elbit style cause it is modern enough to train pilots so say can use far more modern jets. On the other side it only would make sense if there is also a production of 4+ gen jets or there will be some purchase of 4+ gen jets in near future. As we all know Iran sure can plan/RD some fantastic 5+ gen jets, but cant produce them at the moment. So for me it looks like that Russia will sold some SU to Iran in near future.
  


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